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 Helping Sportmen choose a President... 
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I wanted to post both McCain and Obama's Take on the Outdoors to help you choose...

Obama:
Click here to read>> http://obama.3cdn.net/7d467fe75a3029d7df_hum6injwr.pdf

McCain:
Click here to read>>
Second Amendment>>> http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/77636553-6337-4ecd-b170-49e1c07d2fbd.htm

Natural Heritage >> http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/65bd0fbe-737b-4851-a7e7-d9a37cb278db.htm

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Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:32 pm
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This article shows the NRA endorses McCain... but if you read the above link Obama's Sportman plan is pretty good also he just didn't grow up hunting and fishing like McCain and Palin did. This election I am weighing alot more than just conservation and that makes the choice tough...Change or more of the same???

NRA-PVF Endorses John McCain and Sarah Palin for President and Vice-President

Thursday, October 09, 2008


Fairfax, VA. - The National Rifle Association's (NRA) Executive Vice President, Wayne LaPierre, and NRA Political Victory Fund (NRA-PVF) Chairman Chris W. Cox are traveling to Pittsburgh, Pa., Springfield, Mo., Colorado Springs, Colo. and Reno, Nev. today for a series of press conferences endorsing Sen. John McCain and Gov. Sarah Palin for President and Vice President respectively in the November 4 election.

"John McCain has more than two decades of pro-gun and pro-hunting votes in Congress. He has stood time and again to preserve our Second Amendment freedom and our rich hunting heritage," said LaPierre. "Sen. McCain and Gov. Palin have earned the NRA-PVF's endorsement and we will encourage gun owners, hunters and anyone who values freedom to vote McCain-Palin on November 4."

"NRA members and gun owners will not allow Barack Obama to hide his radical record of opposition to our constitutional rights," said Cox. "Obama has voted to make self-defense with a firearm in the home illegal, has voted to ban the most commonly owned hunting shotguns, has voted to ban commonly owned hunting ammunition, and has supported a 500% tax increase on guns and ammunition. We will remind voters every single time he pretends that his anti-gun record doesn't exist."

John McCain voted for the landmark Firearms Owners Protection Act and the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, opposed the failed Clinton Gun Ban, and voted against mandatory waiting periods, national gun registration, and bans on hunting ammunition. He also signed the historic congressional amicus brief in the case of Heller v. District of Columbia, holding that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear arms -- a brief that Senator Obama refused to sign.

Vice Presidential nominee Sarah Palin is a hunter, gun owner and NRA Life Member. Gov. Palin has been a consistent and outspoken supporter of the constitutional rights of law-abiding gun owners and sportsmen.

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Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:44 pm
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I think either would be a good choice for sportsmen. I'm voting more on other issues this time - McCain wanting to tax health benefits, give money to health insurance companies, being for the war in Iraq and wanting to stay there, being clueless as to economic problems and hardships faced by normal people, his onslaught of negative ads, Obama wanting to raise his own taxes, etc made my decision relatively easy. Stuff like this reinforces my decision to vote for Obama. This is the first election that I've been able to vote in where I'm voting *for* somebody, not just against the person I think is worse.

On the health care issue, I remember my father, brother, and myself talking in my livingroom back right after GWB got elected for the first time. We'd heard that GWB was working behind the scenes to eliminate employer-paid health care and my father said that by the time he left office, he expected to have his health care be gone. My father is a GM Salaried retiree and as of the end of the year, his health care is gone. :( (This has me more than a little stressed, because even with my having a good job, I'm not going to be able to afford even just the prescriptions for them if it comes to that.) McCain said before the first debate when asked about reforming health care, "Why change it? What we have is working fine.", indicating to me how he really feels about it before being coached on what to say.

The price of gas, as I'm sure you've noticed, has plummeted recently. It's supposedly due to the stock market crash and lower demand resulting in an increased supply of oil, thereby lowering prices. Well, check out the price of diesel - it's made from the same oil as unleaded, just used by far fewer voting citizens. It's $3.73 right now at the gas station next door. This proves that the whole explanation is BS and I'll be filling my tank on November 3 - mark my words that it'll go back up shortly thereafter.


BTW, for any of you who watched the debate last night, the news put Joe the Plumber (who McCain made the centerpiece of basically all his arguments) under the same microscope that everybody who's popularly referenced is put under. Today, we learned that although Joe has been working as a plumber for 18 years and wants to buy the company he works for, he doesn't actually have a plumber's license. He also has a tax lien against him. (I found these facts to be hilarious. :lol: )

For the record, I'm not a Democrat or Republican. I do my own thinking and evaluate all the facts available to me, then make my own decision. I typically split who I vote for between the parties; I go on a race-by-race basis.





For the MI Supreme Court, Taylor voted to allow an insurance company not fully cover medical costs incurred when a child got hit by a drunk driver. This is because the child had a brain tumor at the time and was expected to be dead in under 5 years. I guess this affects the care of injuries related to the hit & run somehow... it's deplorable judgment in my opinion. It's not a very popularly contested race and is actually one of those I usually leave blank because I know nothing about the candidates - not this time! (I don't even know who is running against him, but I'll vote for daffy duck over somebody who has such an attitude.)

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Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:02 pm
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I haven't had time to read the websites Don posted, but from what I got out of last nights debate is:

If you want Government to control your money, vote for Obama.

If you to control your own money, vote for McCain.

I make my own money, and control it the way I want, not the government.

I like what McCain said about Obama accusing him of being like Bush. He is not Bush, and if Obama wanted to run against him, he should of ran 4 years ago. They can talk all they want, but I don't think Obama is telling the truth, and I don't think he has the experiance to take on the whole world. I have noticed Obama is a really good speaker, and almost had me fooled, and is telling people just what they want to hear to get their votes. I feel much safer if McCain is in office then Obama.

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Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:15 pm
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stel wrote:
I haven't had time to read the websites Don posted, but from what I got out of last nights debate is:

If you want Government to control your money, vote for Obama.

If you to control your own money, vote for McCain.

I make my own money, and control it the way I want, not the government.

I like what McCain said about Obama accusing him of being like Bush. He is not Bush, and if Obama wanted to run against him, he should of ran 4 years ago. They can talk all they want, but I don't think Obama is telling the truth, and I don't think he has the experiance to take on the whole world. I have noticed Obama is a really good speaker, and almost had me fooled, and is telling people just what they want to hear to get their votes. I feel much safer if McCain is in office then Obama.


by no means i am not trying to start an argument or any kind of pissing match,

but mcCain might not be bush but he has voted with bush 90% of the time so that kind of makes me think he believes and will do the same as bush. and basically if you read rulers post and take a look at that link it makes since for me who I am voting for.

what kind of cracks me up is how mcCain is having a female run as vice president, i think that is a way to try to get the votes that were going to vote for hilary, she might be a hot hunting milf i wouldnt mind sharing a ice shanty with :wink: but i just think she was picked as a way to try to get votes.

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Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:02 pm
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I've never voted once since I turned 18, and never will.....

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scjustin2002 wrote:
by no means i am not trying to start an argument or any kind of pissing match,

but mcCain might not be bush but he has voted with bush 90% of the time so that kind of makes me think he believes and will do the same as bush. and basically if you read rulers post and take a look at that link it makes since for me who I am voting for.

what kind of cracks me up is how mcCain is having a female run as vice president, i think that is a way to try to get the votes that were going to vote for hilary, she might be a hot hunting milf i wouldnt mind sharing a ice shanty with :wink: but i just think she was picked as a way to try to get votes.


I have to agree Shaun... Obama isn't just saying what the people wanna hear...he's telling us what he is going to do as President and it's what we need!

McCain is shifty and couldn't do anything but laugh at Obama in last night's debate and I don't think McCain did anything good besides not answer the question's asked and blinked a trillion times!

Like I said above...if you want more of the same ( aka Bush, economy crashing, losing jobs, no health insurance, etc...) then vote for McCain...If you want change for the better vote Obama.

Stel only you can change your own mind but I urge you and everyone else to go to both canidates website and really do some homework before voting day. I'm scared that McCain will just continue Bush's BS...and just because he has a cool Chick from Alaska as his V.P. is just a clever way of getting women and sportman votes.

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Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:29 pm
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My choice?

Nugent/Rove 08. :mrgreen:
I don't like either, I'd pick Ron Paul or Bob Barr. But, Obama leaves me no choice, so the nod goes to McCain.
What I like about this discussion, here in this thread, is that we can talk politics, and nobody here gets nasty, finger pointing, and name calling. That is VERY refreshing. I may not agree with your choices, but respect them, and I do listen to other opinions, as I don't know everything, yet. :mrgreen:

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Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:00 pm
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Fresh Spawn wrote:
I've never voted once since I turned 18, and never will.....


I hope you never want to complain about how screwed up things are, because if you don't do what little you can to change things, you have no right to bitch. :)


stel wrote:
from what I got out of last nights debate is:

If you want Government to control your money, vote for Obama.

If you to control your own money, vote for McCain.


This is what McCain wanted you to think. If you listened to Obama and read the link in my first post, you'll see that this statement is true only if you make millions each year. I personally would rather save money for the people who need it to survive than the people who are so well off, they don't know how many houses they own. ;) (Don't get me wrong - if McCain is rich and likes owning lots of nice houses, more power to him. However, when he doesn't know how many he has, to me indicates that he's lost all touch with reality and normal people.)


stel wrote:
I like what McCain said about Obama accusing him of being like Bush. He is not Bush, and if Obama wanted to run against him, he should of ran 4 years ago.


McCain is as much like Bush as anyone can be in regards to policies. Like stated above, he voted with Bush 90% of the time. Somehow, he views himself as a maverick who fought his party though...


stel wrote:
They can talk all they want, but I don't think Obama is telling the truth, and I don't think he has the experiance to take on the whole world. I have noticed Obama is a really good speaker, and almost had me fooled, and is telling people just what they want to hear to get their votes. I feel much safer if McCain is in office then Obama.


If you really feel this way, you should vote for McCain. Personally, with what I've heard of his attitude and plans, he scares the living hell outta me and I pray daily to whatever gods might be listening that he doesn't get in.


FYI, Palin was just investigated and found to have abused her power as governor of AK, trying to utilize her position to get her ex-brother-in-law fired from his public service job. I personally think this speaks volumes about her judgment and character. If McCain does get elected, be ready to see more of this played out on a national level - with as stressful and hard a job as being president is, she will be in charge before the 4 years are up.

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Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:36 pm
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Oh trust me, I have done my research and can't believe anyone would vote for obama.

Here is a link that hasn't been posted for sportsman:

http://sportsmen.johnmccain.com/Content/SiteContentMain.aspx?guid=ef570ee1-0b83-4e38-931a-625a72171432

Quote:
This is what McCain wanted you to think. If you listened to Obama and read the link in my first post, you'll see that this statement is true only if you make millions each year. I personally would rather save money for the people who need it to survive than the people who are so well off, they don't know how many houses they own. ;)


I don't think this is what McCain wants us to think, it's the truth. Listen to Obama speak to "Joe the plumber" on how he wants to "spread the wealth."



Sounds to me like Obama wants to take yours and my hard earn money, and give it to whoever is to lazy to work. Sorry, but I could give a crap about some low life who has an alcohol problem and wants my money to go by more booze. I work hard for my money, and I want to spend it the way I want. Not give it to the government, so they can do what they want with it.

Don't get me wrong though, I have no problem helping families, or adults, who have mental disabilities, or someone who got hit by a drunk driver and needs help supporting his family. But I will always refuse to give money to people who are totally capable to work, but are to lazy to do so. John McCain wants to help the familes in need! Obama wants to give our money to who ever needs it, even if they don't deserve it at all.

All I can say is, if Obama wins, expect to see taxes go up, wayyy up!

A little off subject, I have a buddy leaving for Iraq in the next couple of weeks I believe. He was already been there for a
year. For as many shots he has had fired at him, and for what he has been through, he says he would do it all over again. The war is going on for a reason, reasons we don't know. To pull out soon, would be wrong, and a waste of everything they have done. Bush might not be a great president, but there is a reason they are still out there.

Obama wants to pull out in 16 months which would spell defeat on our part. McCain has been through it and I believe he knows what is best for this country. He will end the war when he feels it is safe. I am scared of having a president who doesn't know what the first thing about war is. Even though were all sick of it, I don't want to see a forfeit when the end is so close.

And for the records, I could care less if Sarah Palin was from Rhode Island, Deleware, or AK. She is in it for the American People. She knows what it's like to be where were at and she will fight for what is right. She won't let government take over our lives live obama wants.

Fresh Spawn wrote:
I've never voted once since I turned 18, and never will.....


Have to agree with Ruler here, if you don't vote, you can't complain about how bad a president is, or how high gas prices are. We all need to do our research, and make the best vote possible. This is a huge election, and IMHO could determine whether the US excells or goes into a long drawn out depression.

Wow, that was suppose to be a few sentences, but turned out to be pretty long. Im going to bed :mrgreen:

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Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:37 am
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Quote:
Fresh Spawn wrote:
I've never voted once since I turned 18, and never will.....


I hope you never want to complain about how screwed up things are, because if you don't do what little you can to change things, you have no right to bitch.



I don't trust any politicians at all, so I won't vote for anybody.....

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stel wrote:
Oh trust me, I have done my research and can't believe anyone would vote for obama.

Here is a link that hasn't been posted for sportsman:

http://sportsmen.johnmccain.com/Content/SiteContentMain.aspx?guid=ef570ee1-0b83-4e38-931a-625a72171432


Question - did your research include sites that were not partial to one candidate or the other? Personally, I question the accuracy of information that comes from a site dedicated to electing a given person and generally discount it as BS.


stel wrote:
I don't think this is what McCain wants us to think, it's the truth. Listen to Obama speak to "Joe the plumber" on how he wants to "spread the wealth."


If McCain didn't want you to think this, why did he keep repeating himself and going off-topic? They're talking about campaign reform and McCain goes back to Joe the Plumber and says that Obama will raise your taxes. They move on to Iraq and McCain goes back to Obama wants to raise your taxes. They're supposedly talking about VP credibility and McCain goes back to Obama wants to raise your taxes. I personally found it funny - McCain didn't answer most of the questions at all and instead just kept repeating himself. He sounded very, very coached to me - whenever the conversation drifted from his coaching, he went back to it.


stel wrote:
Sounds to me like Obama wants to take yours and my hard earn money, and give it to whoever is to lazy to work. Sorry, but I could give a crap about some low life who has an alcohol problem and wants my money to go by more booze. I work hard for my money, and I want to spend it the way I want. Not give it to the government, so they can do what they want with it.

Don't get me wrong though, I have no problem helping families, or adults, who have mental disabilities, or someone who got hit by a drunk driver and needs help supporting his family. But I will always refuse to give money to people who are totally capable to work, but are to lazy to do so. John McCain wants to help the familes in need! Obama wants to give our money to who ever needs it, even if they don't deserve it at all.

All I can say is, if Obama wins, expect to see taxes go up, wayyy up!


I'm not even going to dignify your characterization of people who are less fortunate and hurting with a reply. Suffice it to say that I'm surprised that you thought, much less actually wrote, something so ignorant.

Did you even look at the link I posted? It's not from either campaign, but from an independent group. If you're making over $112,000 a year, then yes, you would save more money under McCain. The truly rich people, making over $2,700,000 a year, who would encounter no hardships by paying more in taxes, would pay considerably more under Obama's plan and actually save money under McCain's. Your comment about McCain helping families who need it is strange, given that a person making under $19,000 would save a whole $21 under McCain. Additionally, if McCain doesn't want to raise taxes, why is he planning on taxing the health benefits you get from your employer for the first time in history? IMO, you can expect to see the cafeteria plans, where you can pay for medical stuff with pre-tax dollars, go away in the near future if McCain is elected. In short, McCain is a stereotypical republican - for the rich.


stel wrote:
A little off subject, I have a buddy leaving for Iraq in the next couple of weeks I believe. He was already been there for a
year. For as many shots he has had fired at him, and for what he has been through, he says he would do it all over again. The war is going on for a reason, reasons we don't know. To pull out soon, would be wrong, and a waste of everything they have done. Bush might not be a great president, but there is a reason they are still out there.

Obama wants to pull out in 16 months which would spell defeat on our part. McCain has been through it and I believe he knows what is best for this country. He will end the war when he feels it is safe. I am scared of having a president who doesn't know what the first thing about war is. Even though were all sick of it, I don't want to see a forfeit when the end is so close.


First, please thank your friend for me. However, you shouldn't kid yourself Dan - the end is not close. McCain has said more than once that we should be there for 80 years; I seriously doubt if even this would result in victory. Further, the 'surge' working is BS. What they did is hire the same assholes who were blowing stuff up and call them police. The insurgents are still there, but aren't blowing everything up because they're being paid not to. (~$380 per week per person of OUR money.) I'll try to find a link to the article where I found this tonight. I respect our troops, but do not in any way support the war and think we should get out of that cesspool as expeditiously as humanly possible. We haven't even prevailed in Afghanistan, where the support for the Saudi terrorists from 9/11 originated!


stel wrote:
And for the records, I could care less if Sarah Palin was from Rhode Island, Deleware, or AK. She is in it for the American People. She knows what it's like to be where were at and she will fight for what is right.


I really don't give a rip where she's from either - it's irrelevant. Doesn't it concern you that she tried to use her power as governor to have her ex-brother-in-law fired??? Do you view this as the 'right thing to do for the American people'? (Personally, I think it's nothing more than a politician trying to abuse her authority to get revenge on somebody who pissed her/her family off.) Also, what about her being the mayor of a small town just a few years ago and having virtually no foreign relations experience? For somebody who is worried about Obama's lack of experience, I'd think this feeling would be magnified with Palin.


stel wrote:
She won't let government take over our lives live obama wants.


I believe the exact opposite to be true Dan. McCain agrees with Bush on most everything - he's voted with Bush over 90% of the time and is proud of that fact. Bush has presided over the biggest trampling of personal and civil rights in the history of this country.


And yes, I realize that there's no way that anything I say will change your mind. I do think that your stance is based on inaccurate information and a relatively distorted view, but I respect your making your own decision. I urge anybody reading this to do some research and verify the facts I've presented if you don't believe me; as stated above, I discount information from biased sources, but everything I've presented should be relatively easy to confirm.

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Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:08 pm
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Fresh Spawn wrote:
Quote:
Fresh Spawn wrote:
I've never voted once since I turned 18, and never will.....


I hope you never want to complain about how screwed up things are, because if you don't do what little you can to change things, you have no right to bitch.



I don't trust any politicians at all, so I won't vote for anybody.....


Write in your own name. I got 1 vote for governor.

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Ruler wrote:
The price of gas, as I'm sure you've noticed, has plummeted recently. It's supposedly due to the stock market crash and lower demand resulting in an increased supply of oil, thereby lowering prices. Well, check out the price of diesel - it's made from the same oil as unleaded, just used by far fewer voting citizens. It's $3.73 right now at the gas station next door. This proves that the whole explanation is BS and I'll be filling my tank on November 3 - mark my words that it'll go back up shortly thereafter.




They are exporting the diesel to 3rd world countries because is more profitable. 3rd world countries are using more diesel than gas for thier vehicles.

And now that fall has arrived, much is used for heating oil in the northeast where not many use natural gas.

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Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:19 pm
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This is why I hate politics, lol too much arguing...But hey atleast we all here can agree to disagree and still be friends.

Dan I urge you to read through Obama's campaign website and not just listen to the "Dirt" McCain supporters tell you.

I have one of the best paying jobs around and under Obama's plan I will not be taxed more because I make less than $250,000.

You, soon being just out of College should be really concerned about who's President. If you think you're gonna Graduate and have a job making over $250,000 so you can be buddies with McCain then I feel sorry for you.

Obama is out for the Middle and lower class and McCain doesn't care about them. Guess what...you're in and will continue to be in this Middle/low class unless you get lucky and win the lottery.

So in closing I just want to say don't just listen to your friends and family and vote that way...READ Both Canidates websites and Plans yourself. I have 13 years on you and if I were in your shoes McCain would be the last person I'd vote for!

Obama wants everyone to have health insurance at a decent rate...mark my words if McCain gets in and you don't get lucky to get a job that gives you health insurance you will soon understand that part better.

So I feel like I have done enough bashing but I am older and hopefully wiser so I can! :wink:

Also here's the truth about Obama and Guns...he wants to curb them for use for violence and is fine with Sportman owning guns for hunting...
http://fightthesmears.com/articles/17/NRAflyer?source=sem-pm-fts-gun-search-us-yah

Obama's site also has a tax saving calculator... http://taxcut.barackobama.com/

He's going to save me $1000 on my taxes AND not make me pay anymore for my health insurance through my employer.
McCain wants every UAW Family to pay $2800 a year that we aren't paying now.

I could go on and on...

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Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:08 pm
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